Home > Uncategorized > WAR’s 12 Days of Christmas – Day 4

WAR’s 12 Days of Christmas – Day 4

Scenarios
Ok, so back in February Mythic made the decision to pull out the crappy scenarios no one wanted and mayhaps fix em up to reserve to us (sorta like when you find a fly in your soup and the waiter takes it away to remove the fly and reserve you the same soup). So we went down from 26 scenarios to 9, with 6 topped off in tier 4.I however feel that this list has been up for too long with some poor choices included and needs a revamp, soon. Mythic’s had us fighting in the same nine zones for 2 years, and now the same 6 scenarios (with weekend exceptions) for almost a year.  One key thing I would throw in here is to mix up the rotation on the queue. Often the scenarios that pop are the first ones on the list (because they are on top) and the ones towards the bottom (Isha and Battle for Praag) pop less often and are more likely to be imbalanced. Lets look at the menu with and without flies.

Currently in Tier 1 we have Gates of Ekrund (which is T1 exclusive) and Nordenwatch (which carries over to t4)
Tier 2 has Nordenwatch and Reikland Factory (which carries over to t4) and Mourkain Temple (which is T2 exclusive)
Tier 3 has Nordenwatch, Reikland Factory and The Lost Temple of Isha (which carries over to T4) and Tor Anroc (which is T3 exclusive)
And the list is topped off in T4 with Nordenwatch, Reikland Factory, The Lost Temple of Isha, Serpants Passage, Battle for Praag and Caledor Woods.

Tier 1 lost Khaine’s Embrace which makes it back every now and then as a Weekend Warfront.
Tier 2 lost Stone Troll Crossing and Phoenix Gate which made it back twice as a WW and was originally slated for the permanent 6 but was replaced by Insignia Factory… I mean Reikland Factory.
Tier 3 lost  High Pass Cemetary, Talabec Dam, Black Fire Basin, and Doomfist Crater which all make it back every now and then as WWs.
Tier 4 lost Blood of Black Cairin, Dragon’s Bane, Gromril Crossing, Logrin’s Forge, Thunder Valley (thank God), Howling Gorge, Reikland Hillls (where art thou), Grovod Caverns, and Maw of Madness. Of the lost T4 SCs very few have made it back, and those that did have only done so once or twice.
Of the ‘new’ bracket we lost The Twisting Tower, The Ironclad, and I suppose we ‘gained’ The Eternal Citadel as a WW.

I however have reason to believe that none of these ‘new’ scenarios are actually new material, but rather old unused material being introduced into the game under the guise of being something new. Going back to a pre-launch forum one stumbles upon names of maps that don’t exist in our current WAR world, but seem to fit neatly into a theory of mine. You ready for it? Here goes Eka’s theory crafting! Every T1-T3 map in Warhammer originally had a scenario attached to it, and every T4 map had two scenarios! Or so the plans were. But because time tables were in place and the product had to be pushed out before being completed, much content was cut out. So we have material like the map above, a scenario we never got to experience. Since the Dwarf pairing was made first it has a conceptualized list of items, while the Empire pairing was made second and chosen as the main pairing so it is the only fleshed out one; the Elf pairing however was made last so none of its nice toys were ever thought up. Now I’ll go down the list zone by zone briefly analyzing the scenarios hoping Mythic will read my wish list and give us something new for the New Year.

Tier 1
Nordland – Nordenwatch – An excellent scenario by all standards (except the lamp post). Please never take it away from us =(
Norsca – ?
The Blighted Isle – Khaine’s Embrace – A pretty fun scenario with a great built in mechanic to prevent complete spawn camping (the explosions). While I love it, I would not like to see it on a permanent rotation but perhaps more on the WW rotation
Charace – ?
Ekrund – Gates of Ekrund – In lower tiers without AoE dmg and heals a great scenario, realistic up to tier 2. Although it could potentially be used as a 6v6 scenario, it would quickly suffer the pitfalls of Group Heals and AoE damage in a non-light-armor friendly environment. I would leave this one in T1 and 2.
Mount Bloodhorn – ?

Tier 2
Troll Country – Stone Troll Crossing – A scenario I love to hate. While this scenario is pretty much anti-spawn camping and a confused mess, I love it for those reasons. From stupid trolls punting you about with their boulders and the tooth and nail fights at the top of the butte (look it up and dont giggle, get educated). I would not like to see it in a permanat T4 rotation but do welcome it in WWs
Ostland – ?
Shadowlands – ? (Theoretically Tor Anroc… see the geography link below)
Ellyrion – Phoenix Gate – Geographically this scenario makes no sense, but that’s another issue. This SC was originally slated for the permanent T4 6 but got boo-hissed out. I cant fathom why because I love this scenario. Its a large map offering plenty of opportunities for small scale strategy and pitched battles with plenty of natural obstacles to add to this. Perhaps people hate it for its size, but it is one of the few scenarios where you cannot get spawn camped unless you’re a complete moron. Yes in T2 without a mount it was perhaps too big, but in T4 with mounts? No reason to complain.
Marsh of Madness – Mourkain Temple – A very small scenario suffering the same pitfalls/boons of Gates of Ekrund. While fun in the lower tiers due to the lack of AoE abilities (both dmg and heals) it would suffer greatly in T4 and would only make the slightest sense as a 6v6 in T4. It is best left in T2.
Barak Varr – The Ironclad – Introduced with the launch of the new SC system in February 2010 as a 6v6 this scenario suffered greatly in T4. Healing through walls, sorc/bw bomb groups, melee trains. This scenario spelled nightmare for range classes. You will certainly never see my shadow warrior grace the halls of this hole again.

Tier 3
High Pass – High Pass Cemetery – A small map which offers some intense battles and potentially good ones, but for some reason I’ve had only bad experiences in here. Experiences aside, I think this is a good scenario when the opposition is evenly matched due to both its scale and tasks.
Talabecland – Talabec Dam – A larger map probably unpopular due to size but it offers many great high pitch battles and most of all it has epic natural obstacles – a smart tank and the river are your friend (or enemy). I do favor this map a lot though I do not think it would win over the hearts as a permanent T4 SC.
Avelorn – The Lost Temple of Isha – I do not like this scenario one bit. It is hardly ever full and when it is it somehow always devolves to a war-camp spawn (though you can avoid this if your team is smart). I see no reason why this scenario should suffer, it isn’t small and cramped offering cluster-schmucks like the Ironclad. I suppose the hardest aspect of it is the decisive location advantage of the defenders of the flag, while the attackers have to stream through ruins losing line of sight with their healers. If anything it’ll always have its bunnies…. Even when winning or losing it seems to take too long.
Saphery – ? (I am sure an epic SC involving the Tower of Hoeth or its maze could have been put here, but alas, twas not)
The Badlands – Doomfist Crater – I am no fan of this SC at all. It never popped when I was in T3 and entered it for the first time when it was a WW in T4. Where other SCs have occasional natural obstacles like rivers and mounts, this one has puddles of water EVERYWHERE and raised platforms and ropes and kegs and planks… Kiting? Forget about it. As a tank it was a easy enough scenario, all about punting. But is that what SCs are about? The battle on the platform usually devolves into a ‘who has more punts’ battle followed by a ‘whose healers can group heal from under the platform better’ battle. And if you’re spawn camped, guess what, you have to take a 3k hit jumping down to engage the enemy. Have fun with that.
Black Fire Pass – Black Fire Basin – Strategically this scenario separates the boys from the men. Its an open battlefield and victory is decided purely by team play. No obstacles, no line of sight issues. Just an open frozen lake and you and the enemy. Theoretically this scenario should be a blast of duking it out in the middle, but somehow it always turns into spawn camping. Whoever wins the initial tug-of-war usually camps the other side. Why? I have no idea since you can leave the spawn via many different routes. I guess people like being spawn-camped. I suppose the many fact is the scenario has no built in need to escort the part-carrier or multiple objectives to cap.
(Shadowlands/Tiranoc) – Tor Anroc – I don’t really know what the guy who was designing this scenario thought because it is no where near Avelorn or Saphery (both Inner Kingdoms touching the Inner Sea) and is instead on the edge of Nagarythe and Tiranoc out in the Great Ocean. This SC might as well be bumped down to T2 with the Shadowlands where it belongs. Tactically this scenario is only fun for those who have punts. I suspect it would be a more challenging and equally balanced scenario in T1 or T2 where less classes have their knockbacks available. But please dear lord never bring it to T4… Last thing we need is SMs pretending like they’re doing something right.

Tier 4
Reikland

  • Reikland Hills – No longer with us and I believe it hasn’t returned yet (or has it?) this scenario was generally fun, not sure why it was cut out. It had a rotating capture-the-flag mechanic which most of the time no one did because that was stupid and instead everyone duked it out in the middle and up the hills between the two spawn points. I would like to see this scenario back, maybe in a permanent rotation but unsure on that point.
  • Reikland Factory – Introduced to WAR with the Heavy Metal live event in November of 08 this scenario is now for some unknown reason in our permanent rotation. To many it is known as Insignia/Emblem Factory because it ends that quickly. In fact this scenario in no way promotes fighting. If you want the most emblems (which most do) you run around capping the flags and win without even fighting (which happens more often than not). And when you do fight in the middle and one side gets pushed to their spawn, the map is too small to offer other venues of escape from the spawn. Boo-hiss this one out please and thank you.

Praag

  • Battle for Praag – In its glory, one of the best scenarios in the game, a tug-of-war over five points. But, because no one ever caps the last point it often turns into a spawn camp. User error aside, it is a well designed scenario and certainly great fun when the fighting is over the central flag. Perhaps a solution to this would be to have the flags cap by proximity rather than who can interact with the flag, and if the opposing realm is not present the flag flips back to its ‘natural owner’ (north ones to destro, south ones to order, middle one stays neutral). This scenario also in my mind could easily hold more players, upwards of 24. I do not understand why there are 6 scenario parties when we are only given 12 players. If any SC can hold 24, it’s BFP.
  • Grovod Caverns – The place where nightmares were born? I don’t know what it was about this scenario but it blew. Getting stuck on bridges maybe? Getting spawn camped behind a barrier that when you left you were insta killed? Why were there even guards in this scenario, they never did anything. Something about it just never sat right with anyone… Getting a Grovod pop was usually followed by a ‘should we drop it?’

Chaos Wastes

  • Maw of Madness – In its original implementation it ended way too fast. If it was in the current rotation it would gain the renown and fame of Reikland Factory or the Eternal Citadel. It was a line of sight nightmare but not to the degree of the Ironclad, in the sense that mobility was always allowed but perhaps to no ones advantage.
  • Twisting Tower – This SC is just confusing, no one ever knows where anyone is and I suppose it is fitting for that reason. The WW tasks for it were always absurd though. I would not like to see this in a permanent rotation by any means, but do welcome it every now and then as a WW, mainly so I can restock my supply of Twisting Tentacle Pies >.> <.<

Eataine

  • Blood of Black Cairn – In its original form it was a pretty stupid scenario following the same principles of Reikland Hills. But whereas in Reikland Hills the battle usually centered around the middle flag regardless of which flag was open to capture, this one was just a mess. When it was restructured to its original design it was much more readily accepted. Would I like to see it in a permanent rotation? No. WW, sure but not too often. Pretty as it is, it promotes ninja-capping the enemy’s flags and not fighting.
  • ?

Dragonwake

  • Dragon’s Bane – A decent scenario with respawning at BO’s (a unique mechanic only in this SC) which made for some pretty pitched battles at the middle, but the dragon orbs never really did much…. well except in lower tiers where they would omgwtf-pwn you because someone at Mythic forgot to change them from level 40 heroes to something their tier-appropriate. Permanent rotation? Maybe.
  • Serpent’s Passage – Always a fun scenario, unless of course spawn camped. One of the most annoying things in this one is when the other side knows they can spawn camp you and holds the part the whole SC while spawn camping you just to farm renown. This could be amended by having the part have a decay timer, and once it decays it explodes dealing like 5k damage to all those within 100ft. Well maybe only friendlies since I can see some dip-shit using the part as a nuke and running into the enemy when it decays…

Caledor

  • Caledor Woods – I am not sure what voice called for this one in our permanent rotation. Winning or losing its never over fast enough, especially when spawn-camping.
  • ?

Kadrin Valley

  • Gromril Crossing – Why this one was unpopular is beyond me since it operated on the same mechanic as Battle for Praag and everyone loved that. As an order player however I will say that Destruction had a distinct advantage in the initial battle on the bridge as they have more punts (squiggie Kaboom). It was almost essential for Destro to have a squiggie for this SC… That aside I see no reason why this scenario hasn’t come back.
  • Kadrin Valley Pass – That would be the map above. I know nothing of it aside from 5 capture points (perhaps on the same mechanic as Gromril Crossing and BFP?): Borradin Ruins, Gungnir’s Bridge, Kordhal’s Lookout, Slayer Basin, Swamp Rat Marsh. Certainly looks like a fun map, depends on scale though. One can dream.

Thunder Mountain

  • Thunder Valley – Ah God, why?! 5 BOs and a game of tag… find the enemy and you win!
  • Logrin’s Forge – I use to love this scenario when you could punt into the lava. It didn’t have the same effect as Tor Anroc where any punt was a win regardless of brain size, but instead was a more planned effort. The lack of mobility in the interior setting was always annoying, and something about zerging from BO to BO back and forth didn’t help it. Being spawn camped in this one meant naught but stupidity on your part. Somehow this one was not on many’s ‘enjoyable’ list.

Black Crag

  • Howling Gorge – Mixed bag here. Spawn-camping was always an issue in this one and the limited mobility at the top of the hill by the keg also limited it. I didn’t dislike this scenario, but I didn’t love it. Permanent? No. WW, sometimes, sure. WW tasks – blow goat balls.
  • Black Crag Keep – Another unknown with three objectives (perhaps the Reikland Hills rotating objective mechanic) of Northern, Southern, and Central Ruins. Given Black Crags crappy terrain I could see how this could be a nightmare, or could be fun. Depends on what sadistic bastage designed it.

Other
Eternal Citadel – Now this scenario even beats Insignia Factory in its own game. Nothing spells great fun like a 1 minute scenario. 14 kills is all you need to win this one, half of which will probably be punts. As a 6v6 it works and its duration is adequate but this SC will never sit well with me. All I see the opposition do is wedge their healers against the walls so they can’t be hit with positionals while their tanks punt about. Get rid of the chasm (invisible wall like Logrins) OR have the bridge that spawns the chasm from the door to the throne there so the area to be punted into is far smaller and the battlefield far bigger.

Conclusion

  • The rotation needs some changing up.
  • Any scenario where the objectives generate too many points too fast (EC, Reikland Factory, Maw of Madness) is bad. Any SC where the objective generates points too slowly (Cal Wood, Isha’s Temple) is bad. Ideal SCs have multiple objectives to capture which generate an average amount of points.
  • Winning a SC should be a combination of points from BOs and kills. If all the points are from a single BO and you’re being spawn camped and you walk out with 5 points after 15minutes, you will generally hate the SC.
  • Most importantly there has to be a real mechanism against spawn camping – the siege weapons gotta do some meaningful damage. Single target weapons should nail people for 10k, there spawn camping is over in one patch.
  • Lastly, a permanent 6v6 would be welcome. If not possible then maybe as a WW every other week or every three weeks. But choose it carefully. The current design of 6v6’s seem to favor small cramped maps far too much. We don’t want a dinky ship without line of sight where group heals are king. We don’t want a massive chasm that takes up half the map where people are constantly punted. What we would like is a more open arena where tactics and team play decide the outcome of the battle, not who has the longest punt.
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Categories: Uncategorized
  1. December 17, 2010 at 6:09 AM

    Good stuff as always. On the Hammerwiki they list there is a scenario tied to Reikland called Castle Fragendorf. Maybe it got fragged for Reikland Factory. I had posted on the forums about taking some of those long-lost scenarios from the original city siege — War Quarters and Undercroft — and bring them back with some fixing. Or take the old Stage 2 PQs and repurpose them (Bright Wizard College, Monolith, etc.).

    I’m not overly thrilled with the WW any more as they just keep repeating. There are several that have yet to return that if modified could be fun. I’ve always enjoyed the Maw of Madness.

  1. January 28, 2011 at 5:16 PM

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